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El Presidente
Full Member
Cash: $ 13.85
Posts: 69
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Location: Colorado
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quote:
Originally posted by Euler
quote:
The real question is how do we change a culture that creates terrorists?
In 2002, a neocon responder to that very question as I asked it - said that we must do what must be done and that if I couldn't leave my terrorist brothers behind long enough to support my country, then she hoped I would be hit next.
It drives me CRAZY to see people asking these kumbaya questions because it's somehow "okay" to ask them now.
But that's all my baggage.
How do YOU suppose we get along with diverse cultures? Are you, like other neocons, supportive of genocide? Ya gonna "kill them all"? LOL
I am not sure how asking how to change a culture lables me a neocon. We have have more than enough weapons to create a real genocide, nowhere in my conversation did I advocate using them.
Changing the middle east's culture seems the only way to achieve long term peace in the middle east. Notice I did not say completely subplant their culture with ours. But somehow instilling a real desire for peace would be a big start. Guessing from history, negotiation by itself will not be enough. No amount of negotiation has convinced the countries surounding Israel to stop attacking them. Can we stop this without changing the surounding countries' culture somehow? I don't think so.
I learn by talking. Most agree I never stop learning.
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:06 am |
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Euler
Senior Member
Cash: $ 76.16
Posts: 404
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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It depends upon what you mean by change.
I'm afraid any line of reasoning that doesn't conclude in the nuking of the Arab World in Jesus' name is going to be labeled traitorous terror-coddling kumbaya bullshit.
I must apologize, because, as you can tell, I can barely keep my head screwed on straight, given the intensely hateful and partisan rhetoric constantly streaming from the right.
I believe that it's one of the tasks of our generation to bridge the divide between these two cultures. I would like to discuss these things, but discussion has been complicated by genocidal fanatics who are treating the ME as some sort of spectator bloodsport. In their bloodlust, they'd rather label fellow citizens as terrorists than consider that their POV may be in error.
I'll tell you what won't work. Showing the fringe fanatics in the ME that they can control decisions of US leaders with displays of violence. It only gives radical groups the appearance of credibility and power. And when we invade secular nations and turn them fanatic and fail to secure them, we only compound the problem.
The reason our efforts seem to be sabotaging peace in the ME, instead of promoting peace - is because nobody in our gov't is taking the problem seriously. They are all like Michael Brown - concerned with fashion and public opinion more than they are concerned with finding the right way. Their first assumptions were wrong. But they'd rather hang half the US for treachery than consider the possibility that anything has gone wrong.
Guess who pays for that game of save-face? US Troops.
We need to handle terror appropriately. Terror is a problem that has no traditional military solution. Our covert agencies need to earn their keep. We need to infiltrate and sabotage radical violent groups before they have a chance to become "Robin Hood" of the ME.
Infiltrate and sabotage. Because shock and awe had the exact opposite effect.
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Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:20 pm |
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ashraf
Preferred Member
Cash: $ 27.69
Posts: 141
Joined: 24 May 2005
Location: The Middle East
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quote:
Originally posted by El Presidente
quote:
Originally posted by Euler
quote:
The real question is how do we change a culture that creates terrorists?
In 2002, a neocon responder to that very question as I asked it - said that we must do what must be done and that if I couldn't leave my terrorist brothers behind long enough to support my country, then she hoped I would be hit next.
It drives me CRAZY to see people asking these kumbaya questions because it's somehow "okay" to ask them now.
But that's all my baggage.
How do YOU suppose we get along with diverse cultures? Are you, like other neocons, supportive of genocide? Ya gonna "kill them all"? LOL
I am not sure how asking how to change a culture lables me a neocon. We have have more than enough weapons to create a real genocide, nowhere in my conversation did I advocate using them.
Changing the middle east's culture seems the only way to achieve long term peace in the middle east. Notice I did not say completely subplant their culture with ours. But somehow instilling a real desire for peace would be a big start. Guessing from history, negotiation by itself will not be enough. No amount of negotiation has convinced the countries surounding Israel to stop attacking them. Can we stop this without changing the surounding countries' culture somehow? I don't think so.
There is no way to change the culture of the Middle East until the causes of the problem are fully recognized and handled. It is realy annoying to keep lecturing people about implementing democracy while the preachers keep violating it every single day. People will not listen to you or to what you have to say until their basic needs of living freely and in peace are met. The harsh reality is that those who thought they would bring democracy and security to the region in the name of "war on terrorism" contibuted generously to the making and flourishing of terrorism in that part of the world.
The US can certainly win classic wars decisively but it fails miserably in wining the hearts and souls of the people it claims to free and protect.
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
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Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:01 am |
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