| Bush advocates Police State response to Virus |
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Euler
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| Bush advocates Police State response to Virus |
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I simply do not believe what I'm hearing from this administration.
Bush is publicly entertaining fantasies of invading and quarantining US cities using the recent avian flu data published last week.
He's trying to use his own Katrina vacation to justify pre-emptively corralling Americans like animals into urban death zones using armored, masked troops.
We all know what his standards are for "information" and "fact". What's to prevent this insane man from deciding that a phantom virus is ALREADY at large, requiring his immediate martial control?
The current laws permit the military to work with local gov't in times of crisis. Why is Bush pushing for total Federal martial control?
He is talking about stationing armed troops in YOUR neighborhood! If too many in your town happen to die, YOU are doomed. He suggests this as the plan until a vaccine is developed.
The Pharmas take 15 years to approve a new medication. This is tantamount to giving Bush a LEGAL 15 year absolute monarchy over the US.
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:20 pm |
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Euler
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But then he also said we were going to MARS(!) two years into our "War On Terror". So maybe there's a huge grain of salt somewhere that I need to ingest.
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:27 pm |
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Andrew
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Read in the English preparations that medicine was only being sloted for the incumbant party members, not for the opposition. Great work.
Hopefully the world can come up with some more creative ideas on dealing with this looming pandemic.
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:40 pm |
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avenger
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hi to all,
why is halburton building massive concentration
camps on american soil as we speek?
why have new bankruptcy laws been rammed
through congress?
what about the"patriot act"?
google "civilian inmate labour program" or
"FEMA CAMPS" or oliver norths "rex-84 program"
you guys in the U.S.are in a hole heap of trouble.
anyone in any dept[corperations excluded]will end
up in these"camps"
dont be a stooge for polititions.
many thanks,
jim.
"Two days ago i saw a vehicle that'll haul that tanker.You wana get outa here,you talk to me"
Last edited by avenger on Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:14 pm |
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Kiaser
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| Re: Bush advocates Police State response to Virus |
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quote:
Originally posted by Euler
I simply do not believe what I'm hearing from this administration.
Bush is publicly entertaining fantasies of invading and quarantining US cities using the recent avian flu data published last week.
He's trying to use his own Katrina vacation to justify pre-emptively corralling Americans like animals into urban death zones using armored, masked troops.
We all know what his standards are for "information" and "fact". What's to prevent this insane man from deciding that a phantom virus is ALREADY at large, requiring his immediate martial control?
The current laws permit the military to work with local gov't in times of crisis. Why is Bush pushing for total Federal martial control?
He is talking about stationing armed troops in YOUR neighborhood! If too many in your town happen to die, YOU are doomed. He suggests this as the plan until a vaccine is developed.
The Pharmas take 15 years to approve a new medication. This is tantamount to giving Bush a LEGAL 15 year absolute monarchy over the US.
Wow, I didn't know people were that easily swayed by what they read.
You can't invade a city that is on your own soil. And if you think any one person has the ability to control America then you've fallen short in the educational area of how our political system works.
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:12 am |
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avenger
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| you just cant help some people. |
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to kiaser,
dear,oh dear,oh dear.
not another one of the "you dont believe
what you read,do you?" throng.
id love to see the look on your face
when they start "the last great round-up"
it would be priceless 
you cant say you were not informed.
many thanks,
jim.
"Two days ago i saw a vehicle that'll haul that tanker.You wana get outa here,you talk to me"
Last edited by avenger on Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:31 am |
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Kiaser
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| Re: you just cant help some people. |
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quote:
Originally posted by avenger
to kiaser,
dear,oh dear,oh dear.
not another one of the "you dont believe
what you read,do you?" throng.
id love to see the look on your face
when gwb  and his cronies
start "the last great round-up"
it would be priceless
you cant say you were not informed.
many thanks,
jim.
Another wacked out conspiracy theorist. Have you checked your room with a electronic bug/wiretap finder yet? If you actually think that sole responsibility for what America does belongs to Bush and that he alone runs and dictates the country then you've got some issues. In fact, it's thinking like that which would make me hope a leader WOULD do the things you are saying to round up folk like that and "make the world a better place" for sane minds.
I'll be sure to give them your online handle when his "cronies" show up at my door to put me into a camp.
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:40 am |
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Euler
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There can be no debate that GWB has discussed this openly in public as his first response to what he termed at the time, "a pandemic".
Kiaser, if my speculations are too fanciful for you, maybe you can help me, please. What, in your mind, does a city-wide federal martial infectious disease quarantine look like?
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:44 pm |
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Kiaser
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quote:
Originally posted by Euler
There can be no debate that GWB has discussed this openly in public as his first response to what he termed at the time, "a pandemic".
Kiaser, if my speculations are too fanciful for you, maybe you can help me, please. What, in your mind, does a city-wide federal martial infectious disease quarantine look like?
Instead of pussy footing around and not doing anything about a potential disaster, it would look like action. If a massive epidemic was to break out, the politicians will bitch and whine without taking action even while they bleed from their pores and throw up lungs from being infected. I'm perfectly fine with drastic and even over reaction to something that can destroy my way of life. I applaud any leader with enough initiative to and resolve to ignore media bias and political banter for the sake of making much needed changes or action (whether it be war against an enemy both preemptive and responsive, a virus outbreak, or other). ESPECIALLY, since that such drastica and over reaction would be done away with when the situation is diffused (and there's not a nation of free people on the planet that won't put their own government in check when they try to stay "out-of-bounds" for too long. Hell, even a nation of oppressed people will do that, it just means bloody revolution.
Our political system is run primarily by congress, not a president. ALL people in political power have influence on what America decides to do. When that system fails (and yes, I'm completely agreeing that the system has been on a constant downward spiral, however it started long before Bush) there is only one thing left to put it back into check and that is the American public. The American public (albeit largely being swayed by media and political party bias) has put ALL the politicians in office. Of course, this was done in good faith as it's not the American public to blame when a politician does not follow through with promises. However, you can bet your ass that if a politician or entire group of politicians (congress, etc) completely disregard what's in the American publics best interest that the PEOPLE will be the ones to make the final judgements.
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:18 pm |
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Euler
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Well, that's a non-answer. I asked you what a federal martial infectious disease quarantine looks like.
Given Iraq and Katrina, there is plenty of evidence to fuel speculation that the bush administration would turn even a small outbreak into a massive martial quarantine situation. Bush/Cheney/Rummy - these guys are the masters of the hair trigger. They don't need evidence.
We know Bush will send US troops to die for no damned reason.
We know he'll sit there ON VACATION as people die on their rooftops from dehydration - he'll sit there and debate the intricacies of State/Fed control.
These are not up for debate. We know these things.
Why do you assume that Bush would suddenly grow a conscience or become competent if he suddenly (even mistakenly) believed a pandemic has hit?
And please tell me you don't believe that anyone in Congress has ever challenged Bush on any issue. Bush has gotten everything he ever asked for. GOP and DEMS alike are ALL a part of Team Bush.
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:07 pm |
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Kiaser
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quote:
Originally posted by Euler
Well, that's a non-answer. I asked you what a federal martial infectious disease quarantine looks like.
Given Iraq and Katrina, there is plenty of evidence to fuel speculation that the bush administration would turn even a small outbreak into a massive martial quarantine situation. Bush/Cheney/Rummy - these guys are the masters of the hair trigger. They don't need evidence.
We know Bush will send US troops to die for no damned reason.
We know he'll sit there ON VACATION as people die on their rooftops from dehydration - he'll sit there and debate the intricacies of State/Fed control.
These are not up for debate. We know these things.
Why do you assume that Bush would suddenly grow a conscience or become competent if he suddenly (even mistakenly) believed a pandemic has hit?
And please tell me you don't believe that anyone in Congress has ever challenged Bush on any issue. Bush has gotten everything he ever asked for. GOP and DEMS alike are ALL a part of Team Bush.
With that thinking then you'd be one of the dead dehydrated people on the rooftops because the "government" wouldn't come rescue them and pamper their every needs. "Oh look, a hurricane is coming, I'm gonna sit on my ass and play PS/2 cause if things get hectic then the government will save me". Gimme a break, that kind of thinking is what drives most of what is wrong in this country right now (blame computer games not poor parenting, blame government not my own laziness, etc).
And your "question" was not responded with an answer because I'm not a damn expert on emergency responses to virus outbreaks. But you know what, neither is Bush. It's the people in the positions at disease control and response centers that give these ideas. That's why they are employeed and THAT's why the people in power take their recommendations and take action. Why don't you go ask them what a quarantine looks like instead of trying to get someone else that doesn't have anything to do with that job explain it to you?
And if GOP and DEMs are part of the "Bush Team" then why don't you blame the entire political system? Oh no, that'd be too hard to fix or go against. It's easy to pick a poster boy, such as Bush, and put all the blame on one person or small organization. Cop out, that's all it is. Action is taken off of policies from the entire political system and how it works ONLY once recommendations and assessments from "experts" in various fields are received (namely, the positions that people hold at various organizations which are people like you and me). Take some damn responsibility and make some changes yourself if you don't like it. Hell, I'll join in on those changes as long as you aren't being a media pawn and loud mouthing "bush bush bush" non-stop for the blame.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a bush supporter. I'm not a democrat, republican, etc. In fact, I have little doubt that bush himself has any such capabilities to come up with an extensive and comprehensive plan for any such action in any scenario. But I hope to GOD that someone completely anti-Bush wins the next election. In fact, I'd vote for him. You know why? Because once he's in office and things are still as crappy as before and bad things still happen I will be able to laugh at every Bush hater for being such a moron that they thought it was Bush and his "cronies" (this isn't Godfather, btw) that were the sole reason anything in this country happens.
So, provided you were given the worst case scenario from leading experts of virus outbreaks and projections (especially since there are no real world scenario's on such a wide scale in the modern day) that major action would need to be taken to stop such outbreak, what the hell would you describe as the correct choice for response to such an outbreak? The political system today works the way it does partly because of our voting (of all offices, not just president) but mostly because values, integrity, and resolve of politicians have completely been allowed to drop off the descency scale for many many decades. Who allowed such a thing? We did. No longer matters what is the best choice for the public, or the "right thing to do". It's all about greed, personal benefit, anything (lies, etc) to the most votes. I would go as far to say that less than 1% of politicians in this country are swayed by some of those issues, why are you so surprised that a president would be so?
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:53 pm |
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avenger
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| Re: Bush advocates Police State response to Virus |
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hi to all,
thank you euler for bringing some logic and sanity
to the debate.
kiaser you are entitled to your opinion and to
live in a fools paradise if you so wish.
you say;
"Wow, I didn't know people were that easily swayed by what they read."
so apart from hearing/reading how are
suposed to form an opinion?
you say;
"You can't invade a city that is on your own soil."
your not serious are you? this statement is ludicrous.
you say;
"And if you think any one person has the ability to control America then you've fallen short in the educational area of how our political system works."
how our political system works???you have got to be kidding.
you say:
"Another wacked out conspiracy theorist."
wacked out eh? pretty bold statement.typical of
political spin doctors.a complete character assination.
so,so typical.
you say;
"Have you checked your room with a electronic bug/wiretap finder yet?"
a cheap stunt used by polititions to discredit
their opposition.only the ignorant fall for
character assasination.
you say;
"In fact, it's thinking like that which would make me hope a leader WOULD do the things you are saying to round up folk like that and "make the world a better place" for sane minds."
make the world a better place for sane minds.
hmmmmmm......that sounds insane to me.
and very,very dangerous.
you say;
"I'll be sure to give them your online handle when his "cronies" show up at my door to put me into a camp."
i have no dought about that.and i hope that works out for you.
you say;
"I applaud any leader with enough initiative to and resolve to ignore media bias and political banter for the sake of making much needed changes or action"
hmmmm......why do i hear hear alarm bells ringing?
you say;
"and there's not a nation of free people on the planet that won't put their own government in check when they try to stay "out-of-bounds" for too long."
is anyone else reading this.? amazing stuff!
you say;
"Our political system is run primarily by congress, not a president."
hahahahahahaha oh man you crack me up!
you say;
" ALL people in political power have influence on what America decides to do."
oh man this is starting to get very sad.
you say;
"there is only one thing left to put it back into check and that is the American public."
wow,with statements like that you are a shoe-in for
a good job running one of the"FEMA CAMPS" for
the"civilion inmate labour program"
you say;
The American public (albeit largely being swayed by media and political party bias) has put ALL the politicians in office.
incredible,just incredible.what about the vote rigging
in florida.im an aussie and i know that.and thats just
the tip of the iceberg.
you say;
"However, you can bet your ass that if a politician or entire group of politicians (congress, etc) completely disregard what's in the American publics best interest that the PEOPLE will be the ones to make the final judgements."
oh man.o.k. whatever.
you say;
"With that thinking then you'd be one of the dead dehydrated people on the rooftops because the "government" wouldn't come rescue them and pamper their every needs. "Oh look, a hurricane is coming, I'm gonna sit on my ass and play PS/2 cause if things get hectic then the government will save me".
wtf? i would not be going to new orleans if i were you.
that coment could be construde as racist,it is certainly
thoughtless,cruel and devoid of any compassion or
humanity.
you say;
"(this isn't Godfather, btw)"
it is'nt? hmmmm.......illuminati, mi5/6, cia.
and you say its not the godfather.your dead
right its much,much worse.
so what happened to gary webb??? wrote a book
"dark alliance" and got two slugs to the back of
the head for his trouble in what was "judged" a suicide.
his crime,? being negative towards gwb.
and you think this guy[or the next] would think
twice about forced labour under the guise of
"dept servitute" [see the new bankruptcy laws]
you say;
"It's all about greed, personal benefit, anything (lies, etc) to the most votes"
horay for kiaser!  im so glad i can finish this on a
positive note.
people might think im anti-bush and that is not the case.
im just against lies, corruption, drug dealing and
the manipulation of the generaly dosile public.
[of which i am one]
many thanks,
jim.
"Two days ago i saw a vehicle that'll haul that tanker.You wana get outa here,you talk to me"
Last edited by avenger on Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:41 am |
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coaster
Senior Advisor
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| Re: Bush advocates Police State response to Virus |
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quote:
Originally posted by avenger
im so glad i can finish this on a
positive note.
Me too, as I was about || that far from locking this thread. Let's watch out for the personal comments. You may state your case about the viewpoints and arguments of another, but derogatory personal remarks are not allowed. Debate the post, not the poster. So just cool it, please.
Note to readers of this thread: some minor editing was done
~Tim~
Eye Candy : Why Whimsy
Last edited by coaster on Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:52 am |
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Kiaser
Senior Member
Cash: $ 43.05
Posts: 209
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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| Re: Bush advocates Police State response to Virus |
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quote:
Originally posted by avenger
so apart from hearing[gwb bs propaganda]how are
suposed to form an opinion?
Logical deduction, past references, common sense, etc. There's plenty of ways to contemplate things other than what is forcefed to you daily non stop from the media.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"You can't invade a city that is on your own soil."
your not serious are you? this statement is ludicrous.
Look up the warfare term of invasion and see what it brings up. I guess definitions that have been around for ages are "ludicrous".
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"And if you think any one person has the ability to control America then you've fallen short in the educational area of how our political system works."
how our political system works???you have got to be kidding.
Well maybe not YOUR political system, mate.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"Another wacked out conspiracy theorist."
wacked out eh? pretty bold statement.typical of
political spin doctors.a complete character assination.
so,so typical.
EXACTLY hippocritcal. Complete character assination on your side to towards bush and others. It's worse if I do it?!
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"Have you checked your room with a electronic bug/wiretap finder yet?"
a cheap stunt used by polititions to discredit
their opposition.only the ignorant fall for
character assasination.
It's called pointing out how ridiculous their thoughts are and how it closely relates to the extremes.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"In fact, it's thinking like that which would make me hope a leader WOULD do the things you are saying to round up folk like that and "make the world a better place" for sane minds."
make the world a better place for sane minds.
hmmmmmm......that sounds insane to me.
and very,very dangerous.
Same could be said about Islamic facism. Go ahead and try to plead/bargain/and sway those types of people with those types of thoughts. You'll be trying to show them exactly why what they are doing is wrong while they behead you. You can't reason with people that came to a conclusion illogically in the first place. And, in my opinion, most of the opinions expressed so far in this thread just don't hold up merit.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"I'll be sure to give them your online handle when his "cronies" show up at my door to put me into a camp."
i have no dought about that.and i hope that works out for you.
It's meant to be a joke, cause no one and his cronies are gonna show up at my door which you guys seem to think is the "next step".
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"I applaud any leader with enough initiative to and resolve to ignore media bias and political banter for the sake of making much needed changes or action"
hmmmm......why do i hear hear alarm bells ringing?
So tell me how exactly are people in power are supposed to treat every situation. With reserve and worry about what others will think of them? With total disregard to what may work and work quickly and effectively? With try to appease only the small parties that have the biggest mouths instead of for the greater good? Guess what, that's how this country has been run for the past few decades and it's exactly why it's turning into such a political cesspool.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"and there's not a nation of free people on the planet that won't put their own government in check when they try to stay "out-of-bounds" for too long."
is anyone else reading this.? amazing stuff!
you say;
"Our political system is run primarily by congress, not a president."
hahahahahahaha oh man you crack me up!
you say;
" ALL people in political power have influence on what America decides to do."
oh man this is starting to get very sad.
Wow, not a single comment on why you believe otherwise. Just blatant personal attacks that what I'm saying is ridiculous without backing. I guess there's nothing to respond to.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
The American public (albeit largely being swayed by media and political party bias) has put ALL the politicians in office.
incredible,just incredible.what about the vote rigging
in florida.im an aussie and i know that.and thats just
the tip of the iceberg.
Vote rigging. So where'd you get that "official" information? News? Media driven largely by liberals? Hmmmm... Nice research there.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"With that thinking then you'd be one of the dead dehydrated people on the rooftops because the "government" wouldn't come rescue them and pamper their every needs. "Oh look, a hurricane is coming, I'm gonna sit on my ass and play PS/2 cause if things get hectic then the government will save me".
wtf? i would not be going to new orleans if i were you.
that coment could be construde as racist,it is certainly
thoughtless,cruel and devoid of any compassion or
humanity.
It's only contrude as racist because of your own bias on what happened. I said nothing about any race. "Dehydrated people" last time I looked didn't mean black, white, hispanic, or Kiwi. You wanna twist and play that game then have at it.
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
so what happened to gary webb??? wrote a book
"dark alliance" and got two slugs to the back of
the head for his trouble in what was "judged" a suicide.
his crime,? exposing gwb as the biggest
drug dealer in the world 
and you think this guy[or the next] would think
twice about forced labour under the guise of
"dept servitute" [see the new bankruptcy laws]
More conspiracies...
quote:
Originally posted by avenger
"It's all about greed, personal benefit, anything (lies, etc) to the most votes"
horay for kiaser! im so glad i can finish this on a
positive note.
people might think im anti-bush and that is not the case.
im just against lies, corruption, drug dealing and
the manipulation of the generaly dosile public.
[of which i am one]
Then if you want the culprits most responsible for those things, look no further than the media.
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:00 am |
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Kiaser
Senior Member
Cash: $ 43.05
Posts: 209
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Oh, and by the way, I don't mean to come off as rude or use personal attacks. Sometimes it's hard to get through a debate with someone being offended, especially when both opinions differ so much. So I don't mean to offend but I must state my responses as best as I can and sometimes they may seem attacking (in actuality it was the only way I knew how to voice it to try and prove my point or reasoning). I respect your right as a human being to have your opinion, just as I'd hope you'd respect mine.
When people can talk like this, despite being on such different levels of thoughts, and still gain from the conversation I find it unique and well worth the time. It's people that differ so much in many different ways but also find a way to live and conversate between one another that makes us great. I mentioned Islamic facism earlier, and that's exactly the opposite of what I consider a worth while interaction. Islamic facisms only mantra is to convert or kill regardless of debate or even through the revelation of contrary facts.
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:21 am |
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