| To close or not to close cards??? THAT is the question... |
|
|
|
|
|
sambo
New Member
Cash: $ 1.50
Posts: 7
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
|
| Re: To close or not to close cards??? THAT is the question.. |
 |
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
1. Don't let your credit score rule your life. The 2 main things a credit score accomplishes is letting lenders know they can make money off of you, and letting ID thieves know you're a worthy target. Live your own life on your own money, and your credit score will not matter as much. But if you insist, do like the other guys said, cut up the cards and quit using them
2. I'm pretty keen on ZERO!  You can do anything with a debit card that you can do with a credit card. Any one who tells you different is likely misinformed or simply addicted to credit. Live your own life with your own money and lay off the credit.
well put....debit card work like credit cards so u dont get caught up in high interest rates...why put yourself thru the hassle of worrying about another bill when u can just pay cash and enjoy your purchase
|
Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:58 am |
|
|
Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
|
| Re: To close or not to close cards??? THAT is the question.. |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
You can do anything with a debit card that you can do with a credit card. Any one who tells you different is likely misinformed or simply addicted to credit. Live your own life with your own money and lay off the credit.
That's a bunch of crap!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
You can do anything with a debit card that you can do with a credit card.
Highest order of craptitude here:
1. You have no buyer protection with a debit card.
2. You have no extra perks with a debit card (extended warranties, insurance, etc.)
3. You have no rewards with a debit card (well, very few have them and they cannot compete with a credit card rewards. I get 1-5% back.)
4. Unless I were to keep $31,500 in my checking account (an incrediby dumb move), I would have to always be mindful of my continuously changing debit card "limit".
5. You can't spend your future cash with a debit card. (Don't carry a balance and you can...for free)
6. While you are waiting to pay your credit card bill, your checking is earning interest. Why pay for something sooner than you have to?
7. 0% Balance transfers...FREE LOAN!
8. A debit card counts for squat on your credit rating. Unless you never plan on buying a house, your credit rating has a significant impact on your life.
9. Number nine...number nine....Paul's dead...
10. Respect from customer service. Sad but true: People treat "Ultra Mega Platinum" more favourably than "John Q. Debit Card".
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
1. Don't let your credit score rule your life.
It's not your choice. Paying too much for a home loan or living in a trailer instead is not 'stickin' it to the man'.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
The 2 main things a credit score accomplishes is letting lenders know they can make money off of you, and letting ID thieves know you're a worthy target.
A statement made in ignorance. Credit ratings are to assess risk. Companies, governments, even countries have credit ratings. If you are a credit risk (haven't proven credibility, whether by default or by non-existence), then you will pay more for a mortgage, car loan, etc.
Just because someone uses a credit card does not mean they are a credit "junkie". People get into just as much trouble by AVOIDING credit as they do by irresponsible credit. I have $10K on one of my credit cards; do you see me as 'misinformed'? I am borrowing that $10K at 2.99% and investing it at a much greater return. The money I make off of it is more than the monthly payments to borrow it. You don't have to HAVE money to MAKE money...just a good creditworthiness.
Bottom line: You pay more with your debit card for the same items than I pay with my credit card (I pay $19 for gas that you pay $20) and have fewer options than I.
"Expect me when you see me."
|
|
Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:58 pm |
|
|
Lambert
Contributing Member
Cash: $ 5.65
Posts: 28
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
|
| Re: To close or not to close cards??? THAT is the question.. |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
Highest order of craptitude here:
"Craptitude"? I like it. Think I'll have to start using it.
quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
1. You have no buyer protection with a debit card.
2. You have no extra perks with a debit card (extended warranties, insurance, etc.)
3. You have no rewards with a debit card (well, very few have them and they cannot compete with a credit card rewards. I get 1-5% back.)
4. Unless I were to keep $31,500 in my checking account (an incrediby dumb move), I would have to always be mindful of my continuously changing debit card "limit".
5. You can't spend your future cash with a debit card. (Don't carry a balance and you can...for free)
6. While you are waiting to pay your credit card bill, your checking is earning interest. Why pay for something sooner than you have to?
7. 0% Balance transfers...FREE LOAN!
8. A debit card counts for squat on your credit rating. Unless you never plan on buying a house, your credit rating has a significant impact on your life.
9. Number nine...number nine....Paul's dead...
10. Respect from customer service. Sad but true: People treat "Ultra Mega Platinum" more favourably than "John Q. Debit Card".
1. Actually pretty much all banks give the same guarantees/security for their debit cards as they do for their credit cards.
2. & 3. Most perks, rewards, and other features go unused by the average person and usually are not worth the added cost
4. It's called not spending more than you make, and planning for large purchases. Most people call it budgeting
5. "Future Cash" is for Future spending. Again, budgetung at work
6. Even on a very large purchase, the amount of interest earned is laughable. You can't even hardly eat off the dollar menu at a fast food restaurant with it
7. Savings and emergency funds
8. Any company worth doing business with looks deeper than FICO
9. Should have stopped at 8
10. Respect from customer service. Give respect, get respect. Debit or platinum ... should have stopped at 8
quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
1. Don't let your credit score rule your life.
It's not your choice. Paying too much for a home loan or living in a trailer instead is not 'stickin' it to the man'.
Who said anything about "stickin' it to the man"?
I don't know the man and could care les if he got it stuck to or not. There's more to life than FICO, and your decisions in life should not be based on what the effect will be on a score that only applies to if you actually borrow money.
quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
A statement made in ignorance. Credit ratings are to assess risk. Companies, governments, even countries have credit ratings. If you are a credit risk (haven't proven credibility, whether by default or by non-existence), then you will pay more for a mortgage, car loan, etc.
That only applies if you intend to borrow money. And the only thing any person should ever "need" to borrow for is a home. Any mortgage company worth doing business with is going to look at more than a credit report.
quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
Bottom line: You pay more with your debit card for the same items than I pay with my credit card (I pay $19 for gas that you pay $20) and have fewer options than I.
But to me, and many other people, the peace of mind you get from not hassling with the credit card is worth far more than that $1 of savings.
Here's something to consider:
The Lampo Group
130+ employees
dozen or more live events each year
travel, airfare, rental cars
company purchases, supplies, etc.
The usual costs running of a business
not a credit card in sight. They work completely on debit cards
By the way, if you're paying $19 for a tank of gas, where do you live? I just might be moving. lol
marC
Because the Law of Gravity Doesn't Apply to Credit Card Balances!
www.ExperiencingFreedom.com
|
|
Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:31 am |
|
|
sayyes
Preferred Member
Cash: $ 11.60
Posts: 143
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Location: Newport, RI
|
|
|
|
quote:
But to me, and many other people, the peace of mind you get from not hassling with the credit card is worth far more than that $1 of savings.
I agreed with you on the first page of this thread and I'll agree with you again. As you said, "personal finance is more personal than it is finance."
It amazes me how preachy people can get about something that is obviously not the same for everyone. Sure, mathematically it makes sense to use a credit card (and I do that myself), but I also understand that some people are more conservative with their credit. We're not robots and we have to do what's comfortable. It's not mathematically correct for me to go out with my family and pay double (or triple) what the meal would cost if we made it at home, but sometimes you have to do it to unwind.
These are just some of the topics that I've seen people argue over:
1. Should I pay off my mortgage or invest?
2. Should I invest in my IRA before establishing a short-term savings account?
3. Debit vs. Credit cards
The answer to all of them is: IT DEPENDS!
Rolo, I surely don't think you're misinformed, but you have to agree that if you're borrowing money from credit cards (which is compounding interest daily) to invest in the market, you are willing to take much more risk than most people. I'm glad it's working out for you, but were you doing that in 2000-2001? If so, and you were successful I'd like to know what you're investing in! If not, how do you think it would have worked out?
Money Blog | Financial Goals Explained | Bargains Online | Refinance
|
|
Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:57 am |
|
|
Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
|
| Re: To close or not to close cards??? THAT is the question.. |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
By the way, if you're paying $19 for a tank of gas, where do you live?
I never said that was for a tank! I just picked whole numbers.  It's crappy gas, too...no 93 octane. 
1. Perhaps.
2. Some of the ignorant BUY extended warranties yet don't use the free ones. There is no extra cost. What is this cost?
3. Just because people don't take advantage of these doesn't mean it's the credit card's fault.
4. "Budget"s are to play catch-up. "Financial Statements" are to never ever have to catch-up. Quit equivocating. Credit is not synonymous with "spending more than you have"
5. If I can "have it now!" with no extra cost then I'm on it.
6. If you saw a $5 bill on the ground every month, would you pick it up? No, you wouldn't by your logic. Free money is free money.
7. What does "savings and emergency funds" have to do with a free loan? Those are separate issues. Free loan = free time = free money.
8. True, but FICO is the first and most relevant factor. No credit history = you are a risk. One has to prove himself.
9. It's a Beetles song backwards...you need to quit shunning that which you do not understand. Keep an open mind.
10. Yeah, but "10" sounds more powerful and deliberate than "8". 
You missed the intent here: you said debit cards are identical to credit cards and I have refuted your point. Whether one should use debit or credit is a seperate issue. One cannot make the best decision when the facts are replaced with opinions.
If it's not your cup o' tea, that's fine. I just have a problem with your distorted premises behind it. (and on that note, do remember that I am attacking your POINTS and not you personally)
Additionally, I have had problems with debit cards not working in rare instances; they are not identical to many payment gateways, particularly international ones. I do use debit for purchases when I want to restock my cash on-hand (I will not make a trip to the ATM or pay ATM fees).
"Expect me when you see me."
|
|
Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:31 pm |
|
|
Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
|
|
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by sayyes
Rolo, I surely don't think you're misinformed, but you have to agree that if you're borrowing money from credit cards (which is compounding interest daily) to invest in the market, you are willing to take much more risk than most people.
Precisely. MANAGED risk is how money is made; if one takes on risk, one better get paid for it. I'll borrow @ 3% to invest at => 12%.
quote:
Originally posted by sayyes
but were you doing that in 2000-2001?
Haaaaaaiiiilllll nooooooo! All the technicals screamed "100% cash now!" in Jan 2000. One had three months to listen. I tried bonds a little in 2002 and they stunk so I stopped (cut my tiny losses...didn't have much invested at the time). I stuck with GNMAs and the like, then to junk bonds until June 2003, just a bit after the bulls left the gate (gotta have confirmation). So, during the bottom of the market, I was still turning 7-8%.
Nooooow....I wish I knew better then...'cos selling short would have made a killing (but I was still educating myself then, didn't know enough about short-selling to be comfortable doing it.) Short-selling can be quite the adrenaline rush. 
I don't see ever doing options, futures, forex, all that fancy-schmancy stuff. There's plenty to do without losing focus and being distracted. Besides, Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch never did any of that stuff.
"Expect me when you see me."
|
|
Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:43 pm |
|
|
Lambert
Contributing Member
Cash: $ 5.65
Posts: 28
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
|
| Re: To close or not to close cards??? THAT is the question.. |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
You missed the intent here: you said debit cards are identical to credit cards and I have refuted your point.
Actually, I just said that you can do anything with a debit card that you can with a credit card. Spending and payment wise.
Any time you borrow money you take a risk and invite trouble. Many people may be able to play that game and handle it well. Kudos to them. But i would say that they are a minority, and that the average person walking around with consumer debt doesn't need a lesson in how to "use debt responsibly." They first need a lesson in how to live without debt at all. Walk before they run, so to speak.
And for that a debit card can be used for anything a credit card be used for.
Personally, I think the ideal way to go is a savings account with limited check writing ability. If you have to physically go get cash when you need it, and only get what you need .... you'll spend less. But since that's likely a bit to extreme for most folks, I say go with a debit card and watch you balance.
marC
Because the Law of Gravity Doesn't Apply to Credit Card Balances!
www.ExperiencingFreedom.com
|
|
Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:28 pm |
|
|
Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
|
| Re: To close or not to close cards??? THAT is the question.. |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
Actually, I just said that you can do anything with a debit card that you can with a credit card. Spending and payment wise.
Ah! You didn't say "Spending and payment-wise" originally and implied that they are identical. They are not.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
Any time you borrow money you take a risk and invite trouble.
Wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
Many people may be able to play that game and handle it well.
And those that do not handle it well do not understand how money works, primarily due to ignorance and believing in half-truths.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
But i would say that they are a minority,
Nooooo argument here...but sticking one's head in the sand doesn't help anything either.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
the average person walking around with consumer debt doesn't need a lesson in how to "use debt responsibly."
Of course they do! Ideally, they should learn it upon receipt of their first income and thereafter.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
They first need a lesson in how to live without debt at all. Walk before they run, so to speak.
Agreed, but that is not what you are propigating, you are slandering debt in its entirety. You cannot blame the system because people fail to abide by it.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
And for that a debit card can be used for anything a credit card be used for.
Try renting a car! bwaha!
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
Personally, I think the ideal way to go is a savings account with limited check writing ability. If you have to physically go get cash when you need it, and only get what you need .... you'll spend less.
I'm detecting rising levels of craposity...
So overcompensating for a lack of knowledge/discipline is preferred over changing one's thinking/habits? It won't work...your way still requires discipline...who's to stop one from just withdrawing all the cash in the account in order to save trips? Not to mention making a trip for one thing alone is wasteful...in time and car usage.
Also...I frigging HATE check-writers in checkout lines. I think they should be forced to ride home in a horse and buggy to complete the antiquity.
quote:
Originally posted by Lambert
But since that's likely a bit to extreme for most folks, I say go with a debit card and watch you balance.
Is that a good way to start out? Yes...like you said, "Walk, then run"...no argument there...master a little...then you can be responsible for more...HOWEVER...let's not shield ourselves from the big, bad credit wolf out of ignorance and fear...it is that very fallacious logic that people get into troublesome debt and wonder how the Hell they got there.
Seeking and understanding the facts and using only facts in financial planning (I don't care how simple or involved one's finances are) is the only way to be the master of your financial destiny.
Also, just because someone cares about their credit rating (there are other systems than Fair Isaac-FICO) doesn't mean they are "ruled" by it. In fact, it is when you have an excellent credit rating, you aren't ruled by anything.
I want to continue to buy investment property...do you think I would have that option if I had a non-existent or crappy credit rating? No...I wouldn't..and that would suck to be ruled by that.
"Expect me when you see me."
|
|
Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:40 pm |
|
|
|
