| Guantanamo Bay Quran desecration |
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ashraf
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| Guantanamo Bay Quran desecration |
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Now that the Holy Quran's desecration has been confirmed by the Pentagon, the Newsweek magazine editor Mark Whitaker should be ashamed of himself for retracting the original report and owes all Muslims around the world an official apology.
The human rights abuses in the camp have crossed all the red lines. It is time for the absuers to face justice!
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
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Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:39 am |
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Euler
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I respect the pride and dignity of the noble people of Islam in their worship of Allah. Ashraf, I have questions. Can you please tell me:
Why do Muslims care about the Newsweek editor and his struggle to keep his job? Why do Muslims care about anything he says? Won't Allah be the judge of this man? Why does this harm the average Muslim?
This is all one question, really: Why does the Newsweek editor owe anyone an apology?
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Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:40 pm |
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David Briggs
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Islamic theology is intolerant of non-Moslems, and explicitly preaches the nobility of violence. It has poisoned a lot of minds and deprived hundreds of millions of people the progress and prosperity enjoyed by much of the rest of the world. Praising it seems absurd to me. Fawning and silly. Moreover, desecration of what is holy to someone is a typical approach used by the military to re-educate. Real boot camp drill instructor kind of stuff. Tear everything down and start over. Build a new mind from the ground up. Would be interesting to release a bunch of former zealots now non-believers back into their societies. But alas, too many zealots of our own actually want to try to turn the detainees into Christians! I definitely have a problem with that!
~~David
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Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:57 pm |
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Euler
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quote:
Islamic theology is intolerant of non-Moslems, and explicitly preaches the nobility of violence. It has poisoned a lot of minds and deprived hundreds of millions of people the progress and prosperity enjoyed by much of the rest of the world.
That's just baseless anti-Muslim dogma, David. I get no context, no quotes, no references, no proof. I know you are more thorough than that.
There are many spectra of Islamic theology, just as there are in other religions you know. My question isn't about fundamentalism. But let's remember to get back to that later, because it's also an interesting topic.
The question remains: Why does the Newsweek editor owe anyone an apology? Let's let the people who know about Islam answer this, please.
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Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:40 am |
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David Briggs
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Why does Salmon Rushdie have a death fatwa issued against him for authoring The Satanic Verses? Because some religionist coo coo thinks scripture commands it. Now that's what I call dogma!
~~David
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Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:45 am |
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ashraf
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quote:
Originally posted by David Briggs
Why does Salmon Rushdie have a death fatwa issued against him for authoring The Satanic Verses? Because some religionist coo coo thinks scripture commands it. Now that's what I call dogma!
Mr. Briggs,
Firstly the topic is not about Salman Rushdie and the Satanic verses. It is about lying to Muslims about the desecration of the Holy Qurán in Guantanamo Bay. So could you please stick to the topic and not divert the attention to something unrelated?
Secondly, did you yourself read the Satanic verses?.
Thirdly you are entitled to your belief as 1.3 billion Muslims are entitled to their belief.
Fourthly, it is obvious you have no clue what the Holy Qurán means to Muslims. It is not just a religious book. It means everything in their lives. It is a guidance to all of their beliefs and actions from the minute they are born until they die. Heck..the Holy Qurán is more important for me than my soul and family and add to that my country!.
Euler,
The American editors have kept telling us that they seek nothing but the truth in their reports. We were continously told that they represent the best of reporters and editors. It is a stab in the back when the lying is coming from someone like Mark who was supposed to tell the full story without reservation since it touches the very basic element of American liberty and democracy that we have all been told about. Allah will judge him as everyone ever lived on this planet but people should be held accountable for their actions as any perpetrator of 9/11 should be held accountable for their actions!.
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
Last edited by ashraf on Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:16 am |
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ashraf
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For anyone who is still confused, let me tell you this in a plain and simple language:
The Qurán desecration in Guantanamo Bay is far worse to Muslims than all the physical abuses you have seen combined in Abu-Gharib and Bagram!
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
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Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:42 am |
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David Briggs
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Newseek retracted because when they reported the story they couldn't back it up. Just like Dan Rather, Newsweek didn't say the story they were retracting wasn't true. They simply said they didn't have the goods.
No, I didn't read the Satanic Verses. Not sure why that matters, other than some implied suggestion that, if I did, I would be sympathetic to the death fatwa issued against Rushdie.
Are Moslems leading good, happy lives? (My next door neighbors, a family of seven from Pakistan, seem to be. But it is the kids who are leading the way to modernity.) So hurry up with the reformation already. Renounce jihad and give women their rights and accept Israel and pay some interest on a savings account and join me in a beer.
The number of Moslems impresses me only in how many people can be so misguided. Their passion for the Koran impresses me only in the ability of the human mind to suspend the greatest natural gift of independent thought and surrender all to indoctrination.
~~David
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Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:10 pm |
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Euler
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LOL Sarah and David, let's not get so emotional. This way the exchange of ideas will flow much more smoothly. I know this topic is as fascinating for you as it is for me. Attack/defend will bring us to conflict. Question/Answer will bring us to understanding.
Be big enough, confident enough to hear things you don't understand without springing into action to save the President. If he's the man you think he is, he can stand on his own merits.
Ashraf, please do not get distracted by the heated invitations to defend your beliefs.
I don't know if it's possible with people like Sarah around, but I hope we can continue open discussion and leave the job of judgment to the Almighty.
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Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:41 pm |
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Euler
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Sarah I didn't ask you for any facts. Are you confusing threads?
I said that there is more to be gained from Question/Answer than from Attack/Defend. Pinning AJ as "the one to blame" is pure shrill distraction from the topic, which is: Muslim reaction to Newsweek and the Abu Ghraib book-abuse thing.
I want to know why Muslims are so sensitive to reports of the harsh behavior of military prison guards and the public statements of Newsweek editors. I think Ashraf can enlighten me. Your distraction threatened to derail the thread before the exchange of information can take place.
If you have read anything I've written as a personal insult, I apologize. I'll tone it down if you will. 
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Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:42 am |
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ashraf
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quote:
Originally posted by David Briggs
Newseek retracted because when they reported the story they couldn't back it up. Just like Dan Rather, Newsweek didn't say the story they were retracting wasn't true. They simply said they didn't have the goods.
No, I didn't read the Satanic Verses. Not sure why that matters, other than some implied suggestion that, if I did, I would be sympathetic to the death fatwa issued against Rushdie.
Are Moslems leading good, happy lives? (My next door neighbors, a family of seven from Pakistan, seem to be. But it is the kids who are leading the way to modernity.) So hurry up with the reformation already. Renounce jihad and give women their rights and accept Israel and pay some interest on a savings account and join me in a beer.
The number of Moslems impresses me only in how many people can be so misguided. Their passion for the Koran impresses me only in the ability of the human mind to suspend the greatest natural gift of independent thought and surrender all to indoctrination.
You are again avoiding the answer to my question. May I just repeat that the discussion has nothing to do with jihad, or whether Muslims are leading happy lives?. The topic says Guantanamo Bay Quran desecration. Thank you
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
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Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:19 am |
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ashraf
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Thanks for the advice, Euler. I am used to such tactics and I am begining to know where Sarah and David are coming from if you know what I mean . Again Al-jazeera has nothing to do with the topic of the discussion if I am not mistaken.
I am 100% positive that the interrogators know exactly what can humilate the Muslim detainees the most in the camp, and they are using desecrating the Holy Qurán as a method to break them down. If you keep with media and their reports about the abuses you will notice a gradual escalation of their degrees. First, it was Bagram base in Afghanistan, then Abu-Gharib prison where the abuses were mostly physical. Now we have a spiritual and religious abuse in Guantanamo Bay which is far worse than the physical ones. I believe that the direct message the US officials or interrogators want to convey is that those who face or resist the US millitary might - especially among Muslims - will face humilation both physically and spiritually. They will certainly deny the allegation but the pictures we see day after day speak louder than words. The half-naked picture of Saddam is just one striking example of this. Ironically, the US officials were shouting like hell when the Iraqis showed a few war prisoners on TV during the first days of the war, and now you can hardly hear them whispering.
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
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Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:32 am |
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ashraf
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Sarah,
Calling me a "tiny aljazeera'' won't support your argument. Please stick to the topic.
And please let us just remember that Saddam was a brutal dictator while the US claims to be the land of justice and democracy. It was expected for Saddam to hide his crimes but it was never accepted nor expected that the US supported him.
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
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Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:27 am |
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ashraf
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quote:
Originally posted by sarah
quote:
Originally posted by ashraf
I am begining to know where Sarah and David are coming from if you know what I mean . Again Al-jazeera has nothing to do with the topic of the discussion if I am not mistaken.
Ashraf, if you're just "beginning" to know where I'm coming from, then you are clueless...perhaps purposely clueless. Al-jazeera is relevant to this topic (even though you clearly wish it would just go away) as your topic concerns human rights abuses.
As I have previously stated, the Guantanamo abuses were exposed by the American news media as they are sensitive to such issues. I questioned whether the news media of the Middle East would have been as sensitive to abuses of American prisoners. I gave as an example the many many Americans who have been decapitated by insurgents. Al-jazeera highlights these beheadings on their daily news and fails to discuss them as human rights abuses. While they show such beheadings proudly, they will not show Saddam in his underwear as THAT violates their principles. The principles of Al-jazeera, as well as your principles, are biased in the sense that any action by a Muslim is viewed positively, even decapitation of innocent Americans, and any action by a Westerner is viewed as a human rights abuse, even showing a photo of Saddam in his BVDs. That is my point and that is how it is relevant.
Well thank you very much for calling me "clueless". Since that is coming from you, then I take that as a compliment.
The abuses of Guantanamo bay are still going on as I speak, right?. Plus all the detainees were not put on civilian courts for the crimes the detainees allgedly committed. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that in violation of the constitution of the United Sates?. What is the use of highlighting them without doing anything from the part of your government to stop them?. Why is Rumsfeld still in office?
Aljazeera has proven its professionalism to the world and exposed your governemnt lies one after the other and I challenge you to show me only one video clip of a beheading broadcasted by Al-jazeera where the actual execution happens. It continuously tells its viewers that it can't broadcast the actual beheading or the killing!. As the news agency broadcasts news about the violence in Iraq, it also boardcasts to the Arab world - despite the disapproval of the Arabic public- the most fanatics views and oppinions of the American officials. And as it show news about the "ínsurgency", it also presents to the Arabic public the American point of view without any reservation in addition to the interviews with the current Iraqi governemnt officials.
No wonder why your army bombed its offices in Kabul and Baghdad, and killed scores of its journalists!!!
You can not become free by accepting to be occupied
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Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:50 pm |
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Euler
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Stop derailing the thread, dude, what kind of moderator are you? That's an opinion piece, not a report. It's not even on topic - Al Jazeera ain't Newsweek.
Even if it was on topic, rather than prove your point that Muslims are subhuman, you have only shown that you truly despise a free press. Talk shows discuss many outrageous topics. You no like? You no watch.
Fox News has "seriously" discussed nuking Iraq and Afghanistan. You wanna shut them down too? You liberals.
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Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:57 pm |
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