| A cyclical misunderstanding of money? (A question/rant?) |
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Doogin Smutz
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| A cyclical misunderstanding of money? (A question/rant?) |
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Let's rack your brains for a few seconds today.
Ok... I'm no genius by any sense of the imagination. (Obviously!)
But what is the point of money?
Other than exchange and commerce.... what is its point?
I pay Peter, who pays Paul, who pays Ralph, who pays Sally, who in turn repays Peter, who then pays me... back?
What is the true need to pay for things? For money?
We create costs... Do we not? We assign a value to whatever it is we do.
Money these days is worse than racism in terms of dividing the masses. The only true inequality these days is based around a piece of paper w/ green ink on it.
Why do we pay for anything or need money to do so? If it is a measure of how ones spends their time or values their time... then what about those that sit back and collect $$$'s all day, everyday, doing nothing?
I'm not wishing to start a hate mob... but what is the point?
Seriously... stop and think! What is the point?
We don't acquire money then burn it.
It gets recycled and recycled a thousand times over.
I buy your company's widgets to pay your bills and you buy my company's services to pay my bills. We in turn then hand our gathered monies to our debtors. (Whom we invest in...) Why not cut out the middle man... the transaction? The money?
I just truly see no point in making others lives hell on Earth over a seemingly pointless, cyclical, cynical pitfall...
Please feel free to educate me or rip me apart. I am fully open and aware of what this post may cause. So open your minds and lets have a discussion.
Doogin
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Tue May 17, 2011 4:44 pm |
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oldguy
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quote:
Please feel free to educate me or rip me apart.
Hmmm - hard to know where to start, what is your education level?
Civilization started out exactly as you describe - but the barter system became cumbersome. It was hard to trade bushels of corn for a half cow. You had to locate a partner that wanted the other half of the cow, and you had to wait until Fall when your corn ripened (hard to not eat from now to October). And then, when specialized labor replaced subsistence hunting/herding, it became more difficult to determine how much corn equalled one pair of boots. So currency was invented to simplify the trades - first it was seashells, then salt, then gold, then coins, yada.
At any rate, currency is merely stored labor - if you have a desired skill, your labor/time is worth more to others than if you have an "anyone can do it" skill. Also, if you are frugal you will store your future labor for a rainy day - if you are impatient, you will borrow labor and spend your labor about 6 months before you earn it.
I don't consider it to be an inequality (like racism) - I started poor with no skills, I got an education, learned skills and became wealthy. Some people choose not to do that because "it is too hard", and others get it done. More of a personal choice than an inequality.
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Tue May 17, 2011 6:33 pm |
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Doogin Smutz
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Thank you Old Guy...
Next...
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Tue May 17, 2011 6:43 pm |
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littleroc02us
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Nice post Old guy
Romans 13:8 “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.”
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Tue May 17, 2011 6:58 pm |
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coaster
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quote:
Originally posted by Doogin Smutz
But what is the point of money?
Other than exchange and commerce.... what is its point?
That IS its point. There is no other. Making it into something else makes it into something it isn't intended to be.
Ted Turner was once asked in an interview what the point was in making even more money when you already had more than you could ever spend. His answer was (paraphrased, I don't remember the exact words) "money is how you keep score"
There's always barter ......
....but ....
....as long as there's money, why? What is the point of ....
....barter ???  
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Wed May 18, 2011 6:03 am |
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Doogin Smutz
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Thank you...
But "Keeping Score" (to paraphrase) for what?
Is that what life/existence boils down? Who is on top of the capitalism chain?
What is the point in having more money than you can spend?
What is the point in charging people a fee or barter for goods or services?
In the scope of things... we are all here, we all live on the same planet, and share the same resources.
I do greatly appreciate your capitalistic point of view...
But on a broader scope (a humanitarian view i guess...) why do we pay for anything?
You go to work so you can afford to go on vacation... or to pay for goods and services that are needed/required for sustaining life.
We pay for those individuals (through gov't funded/tax/private funded programs) who can't pay for those goods or services themselves... so again why not cut out the transaction?
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Wed May 18, 2011 7:15 pm |
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oldguy
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quote:
I do greatly appreciate your capitalistic point of view...
But on a broader scope (a humanitarian view i guess...) why do we pay for anything?
Not necessarily humanitarian - it is called socialism. Most societies of the 192 nations were either founded on socialism, or evolved toward socialism as a humanitarian way of 'equalizing' things so that the less fortunate (non-productive)could live as comfortably as the productive. And it often works for a few generations - but the standard of living, while 'equal', is low and grows lower with time. Then the productive members become discontented with 'carrying' the non-productives. Many of the EU welfare states are seeing that now - the welfare recipients now outnumber the taxpaying workers (not much incentive to work if the reward is zero, relative to a non-worker).
So your humanitarian view is shared by many, what could be wrong with utopia? But the utopian govt dream so far has never been successful. In fact, the US tried it when we colonized, thje Colonies had a central warehouse where all members stored their produce and were free to take whatever they needed - and they nearly starved by the third winter. So the socialized warehouse was discontinued and each family became responsible for their own food stores. And China? Capitalism is saving that populous from a meager subsistence and raising them to a high standard.
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Wed May 18, 2011 7:51 pm |
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coaster
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quote:
Originally posted by Doogin Smutz
But on a broader scope (a humanitarian view i guess...) why do we pay for anything?
Having to pay for something places a VALUE on it that can be measured in terms of something concrete: hours worked, for example. If nobody had to pay for anything, there'd be no sense of value, no sense of having accomplished anything to get that thing, no sense of having to make a sacrifice, no sense of having to decide between one thing and another. In other words, we'd all be selfish little children thinking we deserve anything and everything we want. We'd place no value on anything, therefore we'd waste everything. Including, most likely, human life.
So your vision is NOT very humanitarian, in the end.
Believe, it's a GOOD thing that we have to place a value on things; a good thing that we can't have everything we want; therefore, money is a good thing.
The Bible doesn't say that "money is the root of all evil." What it says is that the "LOVE of money is the root of all evil." It's not the money that's the problem, it's the improper use of it and the improper place it holds in some people's minds. In other words......humans are the problem, not the money. So getting rid of the money doesn't get rid of the problem.
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Thu May 19, 2011 6:14 am |
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shanecurran
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quote:
Originally posted by oldguy
Then the productive members become discontented with 'carrying' the non-productives. Many of the EU welfare states are seeing that now - the welfare recipients now outnumber the taxpaying workers (not much incentive to work if the reward is zero, relative to a non-worker).
Which countries in the EU have more welfare recipients than taxpaying workers? Do you have a citation for this info? I am interested.
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Thu May 19, 2011 2:33 pm |
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Doogin Smutz
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quote:
Originally posted by coaster
quote:
Originally posted by Doogin Smutz
But on a broader scope (a humanitarian view i guess...) why do we pay for anything?
It's not the money that's the problem, it's the improper use of it and the improper place it holds in some people's minds. In other words......humans are the problem, not the money. So getting rid of the money doesn't get rid of the problem.
Thank you for this...
This is exactly what I was waiting to read! 
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Thu May 19, 2011 2:45 pm |
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oldguy
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quote:
Which countries in the EU have more welfare recipients than taxpaying workers? Do you have a citation for this info? I am interested.
Google Mark Steyn's books, he's written a few, I don't recall the Title but it gives extensive coverage to the issues in London, Paris, and Germany. In general, the current generation is way under-poplulated, only about 1.4 kids per couple, so there are very few under-35's entering the work force. And the over-60's are retired and on a gov't pension. So implosion is in progress - and it will take a long time to fix it, ie, the 'fixes' are not yet born and the prospective parents are not yet encouraged to have 3 or 4 kids.
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Thu May 19, 2011 3:19 pm |
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littleroc02us
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If the United States was Socialist or Humanitarian what would be the point of going to work each day or having great ideas that you could run with and make a profit in the meantime that you could live the life you decide and also help the needy at the same time? I believe that I wouldn't be motivated to learn anything new or achieve new goals, because there would be no satisfaction on saving up to buy that new truck you've always wanted because you sacrificed so much. All you would have to do is blend in and take whatever you want even if you didn't earn it. Personally, I love waking up everyday knowing that I can make a difference and to become personally successful. I was in the Military back in the day and the reason I decided not to reup my enlistment was because I didn't like being told how to live my life, I liked my freedom.
Romans 13:8 “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.”
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Thu May 19, 2011 5:57 pm |
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terrancebrandt
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That is a very interesting thread. or was it a rant already? Maybe i should stick around this way regularly. It touched my curiousity batteries 
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Wed May 25, 2011 3:09 pm |
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Doogin Smutz
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quote:
Originally posted by littleroc02us
If the United States was Socialist or Humanitarian what would be the point of going to work each day or having great ideas that you could run with and make a profit in the meantime that you could live the life you decide and also help the needy at the same time? I believe that I wouldn't be motivated to learn anything new or achieve new goals, because there would be no satisfaction on saving up to buy that new truck you've always wanted because you sacrificed so much. All you would have to do is blend in and take whatever you want even if you didn't earn it. Personally, I love waking up everyday knowing that I can make a difference and to become personally successful. I was in the Military back in the day and the reason I decided not to reup my enlistment was because I didn't like being told how to live my life, I liked my freedom.
Having money doesn't make one successful...
You live the life you decide... but you still pay my way.
The fact is that we all pay for each other already... everyday. You go to work to spend your money at my company so i can pay my bills and I in-turn buy your companies widgets so you can buy my service... so on and so forth... forever infinitely! (that's what people miss...)
People are already taking what they don't earn. (via gov't programs which we already fund w/ our "earned" money) So thinking you are free because you can go to work... (you may be able to choose your profession but you still answer to the gov't monetarily and you still socially fund my ability to pay my bills with purchasing widgets and services or via tax dollars and gov't programs) All you (we) are really doing recycling pointlessly. Again... why make a transaction??? Why associate value?
A means of control?
Absurd GREED... (personal success based off a piece of green stained paper?)
You buy your limited freedom.
We already do blend in a take what we want... without earning it... its a fact. (UNEMPLOYMENT?!?!?!)
So again... Back to my original question... We already do all this cycling and recycling... we already share (unfairly due to monetary values and accumulations of wealth whether earned or not.) So... What is the point of money?
What is the point of assigning a value to that loaf of bread... when after I buy it the proceeds go right back to me when i'm unable to make any money or in you paying me for delivering that loaf to your business?
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Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:38 pm |
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