quote: And how are you getting this money to grow tax deferred? Roth IRA?
No - just a plain old brokerage account - growth stocks, ETFs, index funds, etc, all grow tax deferred. If you sell some, you pay a 15% MAX capital gains tax on your profit. And if you leave it for your kids, it is never taxed, they get the 'step-up' basis.
Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:44 pm
ibcuser New Member
Cash: $ 1.00
Posts: 5
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Location: South Florida
infinite Banking Concept
Hello Old guy and Coaster. I am licensed in life insurance because it was the "legal way" I was able to promote the Infinite Banking Concept, that I started as a consumer when I was looking for the right platform to manage my money that would give me safety, efficiency and control over my money and results.
Nelson Nash designed the IBC because he had some cash value policies and found how to benefit from them. He might have been an insurance agent at the time but he was not an underwriter so this it is not an insurance company product.
A big misunderstanding to consider the IBC an investment; it is a financing process that uses a whole life insurance as the platform.
The big benefit of the IBC is the return of your money to you, not the return on the money. Every payment that you make paying back a loan that you took to satisfy a need or want, comes back to you to replenish your cash value so you can use it again and again.
When you own the platform where you deposit your money, you control the money. If you deposit in a corner bank, they control your money, if you deposit in a qualified vehicle (401k, IRA) the governement controls your money.
The reason you control your money in a cash value life insurance is because that is a contract among two private parties, you and a company and by contract you have the first priority to access that money.
Besides Neson's book "Becoming your own Banker", there is a new, very good book that you should read: "How Privatized Banking Really Works" by Carlos Lara and Robert P.Murphy PhD.
Coaster keeping all his money with Wall Street and getting those consistent returns is very impressive and you can still do that once you have created your personal banking system according to the IBC.
If you are that good at it, your results will be even better using the IBC.
Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:57 pm
oldguy Senior Member
Cash: $ 750.85
Posts: 3651
Joined: 21 May 2006
Location: arizona
quote: A big misunderstanding to consider the IBC an investment; it is a financing process that uses a whole life insurance as the platform.
Yeah, we got it the first time, LOL. But there are lots of ways to borrow capital inexpensively for long terms - and then work on the spread - it doesn't require life insurance nor is it peculiar to life insurance. (I became wealthy, and I don't have any life insurance.)
Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:06 am
coaster Senior Advisor
Cash: $ 1626.30
Posts: 7990
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Re: infinite Banking Concept
quote:Originally posted by ibcuser
The reason you control your money in a cash value life insurance is because that is a contract among two private parties, you and a company and by contract you have the first priority to access that money.
I have a better way to control my own money. I keep it.
Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:09 am
ibcuser New Member
Cash: $ 1.00
Posts: 5
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Location: South Florida
Infinite Banking
I know you Old guy and Coaster are sharp and probably part of the group of exceptions to the rule.
There might be an easy $100,000.00 dollars that you guys can make. There is a lady named Pamela Yellen, author of "Bank on Yourself" that challenges anybody presently using a platform that can document better performance than the IBC and pays $100,000.00 to the one that does it. This challenge was open for everyone and posted in the internet. I believe is still current.
Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:38 pm
coaster Senior Advisor
Cash: $ 1626.30
Posts: 7990
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
I didn't read on the fine print on Yellen's challenge, so I can't say what caveats she gives claimers to the challenge; I did see that the copyright on the book is 2009; the date mentioned on the site when she started this was 2002; but I can guarantee that no one will ever claim her prize because: her challenge must be based on hypothetical results backtested over historical data; it hasn't been around long enough to produce the results she claims it will; she can't document her claims with actual results.
Anyone can come up with hypothetical results that can beat hers and she knows that. So she won't settle for anything less than actual results. But she can't match that with her own actual results in hard copy from her banks, brokers, accounts, tax returns and so forth. So no one will ever win the prize and she never need fear getting beat because nobody's going to prove otherwise. In a deal like this the proof is the burden of the challenger and no challenger will be able to come up with documented results to beat her hypothetical results.
In essence, it's all a fiction; the books are cooked. The book is cooked to hook the sucker fish and no thanks, but I'm not biting.
Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:40 am
ibcuser New Member
Cash: $ 1.00
Posts: 5
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Location: South Florida
Infinite Banking Concept
You are also making assumptions. She did not design the IBC, she is just a student of Nelson that happens to be very good at marketing. she started her policies back in 2002.
On the other hand Nelson is 76 or 77 years old and he has policies with 30 or 40 years and there are people that practice the IBC who have policies with some years on them also.
The only reason I debate you is because I believe this process is very good and simple for the average American with discipline and long term commitment.
For people like you or your friend Oldguy, who became so good at investing it might look that it is not needed. The thing is you did not become very good at what you are doing without effort and lots of training and perhaps lots of loses till you become good.
Just one more point: combining good investments with the financing advantages of the IBC improve results.
Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:07 pm
oldguy Senior Member
Cash: $ 750.85
Posts: 3651
Joined: 21 May 2006
Location: arizona
quote: Just one more point: combining good investments with the financing advantages of the IBC improve results.
It's not difficult to mathematically compare:
A. Owning a Whole Life policy and borrowing on it.
or
B. Owning a term policy and investing the exta premium in an index fund at 11%/yr for 30 yrs. ($500/m is about $1,300,000)
It's clear to me that invester B is far and away ahead of the IBC guy, maybe by as much as an extra million. A catchy name doesn't make it good - the product itself has to be good.
Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:41 am
ibcuser New Member
Cash: $ 1.00
Posts: 5
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Location: South Florida
Infinite Banking Concept
quote: B. Owning a term policy and investing the exta premium in an index fund at 11%/yr for 30 yrs. ($500/m is about $1,300,000)
This is what I find fascinating; most guys ridicule and discredit the projections of life insurance actuaries, who study risk very carefully and work very conservative. Their incentive is to protect people and keep the respect of clients and company peers.
On the other hand the mutual fund managers, financial money managers, they believe, worship and follow Wall Street projections as infallible. How they approach their analisys? heavy on speculation and creativity.
Their incentive is to make as more money as possible for themselves by luring millions of suckers with their new untested and unknown ideas.
I made a study a few months ago about the crashes of the stock markets since 1929 to 2010
I found that they happened every so often, sometimes as frequently as every couple of years, and I also found that for the stock market to recuperate from a crash it needs an ever more susbstantial gain to come back to where it was before the crash.
For example: If the markets fall 50%, you would think, well they need to gain 50% and we are back in business, right where we left before the fall.
Not quite, the markets need to gain 100% from the place they fall to, and that makes it very difficult to sustain consistent gains like the one you refer of 11% for 30 years in your index fund.
So unless we treat both industries with the same respect, we will not be able to measure the real benefits for the average American.
Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:00 pm
coaster Senior Advisor
Cash: $ 1626.30
Posts: 7990
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
quote: So unless we treat both industries with the same respect, we will not be able to measure the real benefits for the average American.
Respect is earned. Unfortunately, there's a large portion of the life insurance industry that places little value on respect.
Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:53 am
oldguy Senior Member
Cash: $ 750.85
Posts: 3651
Joined: 21 May 2006
Location: arizona
quote: This is what I find fascinating; most guys ridicule and discredit the projections of life insurance actuaries, who study risk very carefully and work very conservative. Their incentive is to protect people and keep the respect of clients and company peers.
IMO your industry is not quite as 'pure of thought' as you indicate. In fact, Congress has been considering legislation to clip the wings of insurance companies that are pushing inappropriate products on seniors.
And selling such things as 'Infinite Banking' is not likely to 'keep the respect of clients & peers', quite the opposite.
LOL - and I doubt that you actually have clients that can't understand 50% down, 100% up.
Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:07 pm
ibcuser New Member
Cash: $ 1.00
Posts: 5
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Location: South Florida
infinite Banking Concept
quote: IMO your industry is not quite as 'pure of thought' as you indicate. In fact, Congress has been considering legislation to clip the wings of insurance companies that are pushing inappropriate products on seniors.
And selling such things as 'Infinite Banking' is not likely to 'keep the respect of clients & peers', quite the opposite.
Oldguy, Congress normally responds to benefit sectors of society like in the case of bail outs and bridges to nowhere. They are not necessarily the best group to dictate what is appropiate.
Most products that hurt seniors are based on Wall Street performance and that negate liquidity. Seniors need security and accessto their money.
Also is very common and easy to tag as bad something that we do not understand.
Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:32 pm
oldguy Senior Member
Cash: $ 750.85
Posts: 3651
Joined: 21 May 2006
Location: arizona
quote: Oldguy, Congress normally responds to benefit sectors of society like in the case of bail outs and bridges to nowhere. They are not necessarily the best group to dictate what is appropiate.
Good point !!
Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:37 pm
josht Contributing Member
Cash: $ 8.00
Posts: 39
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Old guy.
You got an 11 percent return in the market for the last 30 years... and you know that is great for you.
But you are the ONLY person I have ever talked to that got those kind of returns. Most people make money one year and lose money the next.
And the last 10 years have not been like the 20 previous to those.
And I don't really see the markets getting much better, personally.
But that is beside the point. The point is most Americans aren't going to get an 11 percent return on their money. On top of that most Americans are going to have to by a broker fee every year.
And taxes.
And buy insurance.
And then they are going to go and finance their car at the bank.
And make purchases on their credit cards.
Infinite banking is going to combat all these things and put your money now flowing towards yourself. That is what it is all about. And it has no risk.
And you tell me what other investment is going to leave your heirs with 5 times your savings tax free?
Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:43 am
mike95910 New Member
Cash: $ 1.20
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Location: Orlando Florida
Yep cant do anything out of the US and i have no idea why not
