josht
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| Infinite Banking |
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What do you know about the infinite banking concept? And what is your opinion of it as you see it now? Benefits? Disadvantages?
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:13 pm |
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oldguy
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quote:
Infinite Banking can be one of the greatest investment tools to create wealth. By using dividend paying whole life insurance as a vehicle
Life insurance companies have entire departments dedicated to arranging new products and catchy new names for them - it is a way to 'freshen' the old products that have worn thin. This has been going on for 60 years that I have witnessed personally - there is 'Return of Premiums', 'Whole Life', 'Variable Life', and dozens of variations. And then there is the endless line of annuity products (Congress has been looking at making the sale of inappropriate annuities to seniors illegal. Sometimes this 'infinite' banking scheme is wrapped around your home mortgage, that scam was popular in Australia 10 to 15 yrs ago.
Are you trying to get into insurance sales by selling this product? Or are you considering using it yourself? Or both?
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:03 pm |
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josht
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I don't think I would have much luck selling insurance over a forum... And yes I do sell infinite banking AND use it. But you could see that from my profile. I am just interested in seeing more responses of people and if they use it, don't use it, and what the overall feeling is...
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Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:13 pm |
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josht
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Location: Boise, ID
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Ya... true... Can't do anything outside the US.
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Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:09 am |
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oldguy
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quote:
And yes I do sell infinite banking AND use it. But you could see that from my profile. I am just interested in seeing more responses of people and if they use it, don't use it, and what the overall feeling is
Most people will recognize the scam, I doubt that you will get many takers outside of your own group of relatives and friends (ex-friends?). 
I'm an engineer, math is my thing - I see two types of salesmen peddling these things, one type doesn't understand it, they buy into the marketing line, memorize the answers, and truly think that they are selling a good product, it's hard to fault them as scammers since they too are being scammed. The second type knows about the scam but they push it anyway, they enjoy the chase and the conquests.
IMO you should find a better product to sell before you dash your reputation and mess up your future in the business.
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Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:57 pm |
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josht
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If you are an engineer then you clearly haven't done your homework. Those who understand logic see the benefits of Infinite Banking and why it is heads and shoulders above any other option.
Read How It Works by Gary Vande Linde, He was a 12 year engineer. You are going to find that what you have heard or what you think you know isn't correct.
You can look it up online. There is a PDF in the middle of the search page that has it. From bank tutor .com or something like that.
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Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:05 pm |
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oldguy
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quote:
Those who understand logic see the benefits of Infinite Banking and why it is heads and shoulders above any other option.
Just so you know - I read your 'new car' example of borrowing from yourself in Infinite Banking. Not exactly a fresh idea, I've done that for 35 yrs.
I never pay cash for new cars, I leave our money in an SP500 Index Fund earning 11%/yr average. If I took the $30k out to pay cash for a car, I would also need to pay $3000 in capital gains tax on my profits, ie I would need to take out $33,000. Instead I finance the car 100% (leaving my own $33,000 in the SP500). Plus I sell the old car privately for maybe $4000 and put that into the SP500. The $37,000 in the SP500 @ 11% doubles to $74,000 in 6 yrs - and it grows tax deferred. And it is all done WITHOUT Infinite Banking.
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Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:28 pm |
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nvrgivupevr
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Great forum ! I recently read a book ( well some of it ,jumped around a lot)called "Missed Fortune 101",and it had the same concept.Using insurance for tax reasons and to finance cars, houses, etc. Also talked about accumulating wealth this way, well, to start off , I'm a novice at finance,but trying to educate myself so I can make desicions about my money that are best for ME, not somone else. I always try to listen to people who know more than myself one, and two , people who have NOTHING to gain by giving me advice. Old Guy and Coaster as I see it have nothing to gain, and I love the car example Old guy gives for buying a car. ( wish I had the 33,000 to put in an index fund though) but my point I think is , it is very easy to read books like the one I have, and read posts like this one and believe them because they make them so inticing and believable. I do know one thing, there are no shortcuts to wealth. I'll keep watching and learning, thanks agin to old guy and coaster.
Merry Christmas and a safe and happy new year to all
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Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:34 pm |
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oldguy
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quote:
I do know one thing, there are no shortcuts to wealth.
An excellent truth to understand - it sounds simplistic, but people continually fall for the 'get rick quick' schemes - options, puts, calls, shorts, penny stocks, corn futures - those sell lots of 'how to' books and software packages. (BTW, I did everything on the above list during my formative yrs so I'm experienced how NOT to become wealthy as well as how to become wealthy). 
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Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:47 pm |
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josht
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@ Old Guy ...
Please then educate us. What index are you getting 11 percent a year average on?
And how are you getting this money to grow tax deferred? Roth IRA?
Also, just so you know. If you finance your cars 100 percent, which I assume you mean through the bank or another financial institution, and you are getting 11 percent on let's say $33,000, but you are paying 5 percent at the bank for a $33,000 car, then you are really only getting 6 percent on your money, minus taxes, you are getting 4 percent.
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Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:07 am |
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oldguy
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quote:
And how are you getting this money to grow tax deferred? Roth IRA?
No - just a plain old brokerage account - growth stocks, ETFs, index funds, etc, all grow tax deferred. If you sell some, you pay a 15% MAX capital gains tax on your profit. And if you leave it for your kids, it is never taxed, they get the 'step-up' basis.
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Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:44 pm |
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ibcuser
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| infinite Banking Concept |
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Hello Old guy and Coaster. I am licensed in life insurance because it was the "legal way" I was able to promote the Infinite Banking Concept, that I started as a consumer when I was looking for the right platform to manage my money that would give me safety, efficiency and control over my money and results.
Nelson Nash designed the IBC because he had some cash value policies and found how to benefit from them. He might have been an insurance agent at the time but he was not an underwriter so this it is not an insurance company product.
A big misunderstanding to consider the IBC an investment; it is a financing process that uses a whole life insurance as the platform.
The big benefit of the IBC is the return of your money to you, not the return on the money. Every payment that you make paying back a loan that you took to satisfy a need or want, comes back to you to replenish your cash value so you can use it again and again.
When you own the platform where you deposit your money, you control the money. If you deposit in a corner bank, they control your money, if you deposit in a qualified vehicle (401k, IRA) the governement controls your money.
The reason you control your money in a cash value life insurance is because that is a contract among two private parties, you and a company and by contract you have the first priority to access that money.
Besides Neson's book "Becoming your own Banker", there is a new, very good book that you should read: "How Privatized Banking Really Works" by Carlos Lara and Robert P.Murphy PhD.
Coaster keeping all his money with Wall Street and getting those consistent returns is very impressive and you can still do that once you have created your personal banking system according to the IBC.
If you are that good at it, your results will be even better using the IBC.
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Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:57 pm |
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oldguy
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quote:
A big misunderstanding to consider the IBC an investment; it is a financing process that uses a whole life insurance as the platform.
Yeah, we got it the first time, LOL. But there are lots of ways to borrow capital inexpensively for long terms - and then work on the spread - it doesn't require life insurance nor is it peculiar to life insurance. (I became wealthy, and I don't have any life insurance.)
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Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:06 am |
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ibcuser
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| Infinite Banking |
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I know you Old guy and Coaster are sharp and probably part of the group of exceptions to the rule.
There might be an easy $100,000.00 dollars that you guys can make. There is a lady named Pamela Yellen, author of "Bank on Yourself" that challenges anybody presently using a platform that can document better performance than the IBC and pays $100,000.00 to the one that does it. This challenge was open for everyone and posted in the internet. I believe is still current.
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Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:38 pm |
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ibcuser
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| Infinite Banking Concept |
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You are also making assumptions. She did not design the IBC, she is just a student of Nelson that happens to be very good at marketing. she started her policies back in 2002.
On the other hand Nelson is 76 or 77 years old and he has policies with 30 or 40 years and there are people that practice the IBC who have policies with some years on them also.
The only reason I debate you is because I believe this process is very good and simple for the average American with discipline and long term commitment.
For people like you or your friend Oldguy, who became so good at investing it might look that it is not needed. The thing is you did not become very good at what you are doing without effort and lots of training and perhaps lots of loses till you become good.
Just one more point: combining good investments with the financing advantages of the IBC improve results.
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Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:07 pm |
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