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Kimberlie Broe
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On Solar Panel investing  Reply with quote  

I have been really curious about Solar Panels as a source of energy. I have read that this kind will be more cost efficient in the long run although, you still have to investment a quite huge amount of money to purchase it. My question is, Does anybody here actually have solar panel either at home of workplace? How is the consumption and cost?
Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:44 am
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oldguy
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So far they are being oversold - and several of the companies went bankrupt. Gov't, at both federal and local levels have been heavily subsidizing them, without that help, solar would be mostly unaffordable. Ie, solar isn't sustainable on it's own.

They are great in remote areas - elk crossing flashers, rural crossings, ranches, etc. It is expensive to place a panel plus the re-chargable battery and the controllers for nite use - but it's way cheaper than building miles of power lines to the remote places. And solar panels are good for space flight, we used them since the 1960's, they are light weight compared to boxes of batteries - and launching extra payload into Space is difficult.

A better plan may be Utilities-owned Solar fields, where the power can be controlled and fed into the grid. That would avoid the problem of synchronizing 1000's of individual panels and trying to balance the grid when some houses are feeding power to the grid and others are pulling power from the grid. Plus the Central Field would have supplemental power for use at night and on cloudy days.

Currently, companies a trying to lease the solar panels to customers. In some cases, the solar companies are trying to "rent your roof" for 20 yrs. Lots of screwy (and not so honest) ploys to sell them.
Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:27 am
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stillthinking
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Just like oldguy said, I would really be careful when you go about purchasing them. Some companies will try to sucker you in. I had a guy come in and he showed me all the money I would be saving. He got me really excited for this big change only to find out after all this time I put in; the company wants me to pay to lease these solar panels. Then in 20 years I could officially buy them and I think they wanted about $80,000 to keep them on my house.
What really bugged me and broke the deal is I was not getting "free solar power", they actually had a rate I would have to pay them for the solar power I use. So I would still be paying a utilities bill on my electric, just cheaper even though I'm technically getting it for free from the sun.
If you can buy them outright, and you don't need the money for anything else then yes, they will save you money in the long run. They pay for themselves in the long run especially if the electric is expensive near you.
Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:55 am
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stomarpro
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There are people selling the self-install plans. Is this recommended and what are the pros and cons?
Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:05 pm
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oldguy
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quote:
the company wants me to pay to lease these solar panels. Then in 20 years I could officially buy them and I think they wanted about $80,000 to keep them on my house.


The solar deals that I see in the Newspaper & magazines always leave out the most important calculation. They show some purchase or lease costs (I'll pick $20,000). And then compare that cost against a savings in electricity, say $100/m for 30 years ($36,000). And conclude that you'll get your $20,000 back in ONLY 17 years.
But that doesn't account for the lost return on the original $20,000. If I kept that $20,000 and left it in my 11%/yr stock fund, it would be worth $440,000 in 30 years. My 4 bedroom 3 bath house is total electric - heating, cooling, stove, oven, water heater, everything. Last years electric bill was $2150 (about $180/m). The $440,000 that I earn by NOT buying solar will pay my electric bill for over 200 years. Very Happy
Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:48 pm
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Kimberlie Broe
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Seems that return of investment if I am to purchase will take so long. I am not saying that it would not be a benefit but would definitely something costly at this point. I have seen a sample computation as well but this does not convince me either. I have read an article l on renewable energy (solar energy for that matter)and it speaks on how the challenges as well as the benefit. Still a good read though.
Post Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:51 am
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oldguy
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UltraBattery® Energy Resource) with a solar energy-generating farm


Yes - they struggle to dream up ways to appear economically feasible - selling, leasing, renting your roof, building solar farms. And the industry uses powerful lobbies to keep government subsidies for solar, otherwise it would die (most buyers are enamored by 'free' govt money).

But the physics for solar just isn't there, we used solar on Space Flights 50 years ago, it works when cost doesn't matter and there is no other way to generate power (and boxes of flashlite batteries are too heavy for lift-off).

And, like the others article, this article leaves out the "lost opportunity" cost. If I DON'T spend $20,000 on solar, I have an extra $20k to invest - I invest in the SP500 Index where $20k grows to $400,000 in 30 yrs.
Post Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:18 pm
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oldguy
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There is 'solar' article in today's (1/12) Phoenix paper. Mr X paid $17,500 in 2012 for solar panels. He generates about 54% of his electricity. Under new Utilities billing, his savings is about $338/year. So he'll get his $17,500 back in about 50 yrs.

My point in this - if he had kept his $17,500 and invested it, he would have several $100,000. Ie, the financial trade isn't even close - he would have saved life-changing amounts of money by AVOIDING solar. I know most of the buyers are swayed by being "green, socially acceptable, yada" - but that seem to be the only benefit.
Post Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:47 pm
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grimdispatcher
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Re: On Solar Panel investing  Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by Kimberlie Broe
I have been really curious about Solar Panels as a source of energy. I have read that this kind will be more cost efficient in the long run although, you still have to investment a quite huge amount of money to purchase it. My question is, Does anybody here actually have solar panel either at home of workplace? How is the consumption and cost?


I would like to invest with solar panels also because I believe that it helps to stop global warming which threatens the survival of human society, as well as the survival of other species here in our planet.

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/08/advantages-disadvantages-solar-power/
Post Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:03 pm
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oldguy
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quote:
I would like to invest with solar panels also because I believe that it helps to stop global warming which threatens the survival of human society, as well as the survival of other species here in our planet.


Yes - I very much agree with your goal. But not with that solution. In rough numbers about 90% of our carbon-fuel pollution comes from 2 sources - power plants and vehicles - about 45% from each. If we would fix those two things, the air over our country (& major metro areas) would be cleaner than it was in the 1800's before cars (in that era, the only carbon-fuel was small, coal furnaces for heat & factories).

I hate to see our US Govt shoving billions of our dollars into subsidizing failing solar panel schemes. (The attached web was a good eg of 'free" solar panels, zero down payment, leases, skewed data, yada). Instead, that Govt money should be used for a Manhattan-type research project to develop a >700 mile car battery (so that you could drive all day, then recharge at motel). And then finish the nuclear build-out (the US has 108 reactors that provides 20% of our US power, the world has 400+ reactors, France is nearly 100% reactor powered). Car power would ultimately come from nuclear power plants (recharge). That concept would literally stop 90% of fossil-fueled power, carbon pollution, green house gases.

My point - if we want to fix our world problem, we need to pick a solution that actually works - rather than fiddle with mini-concepts that might provide 15% of our power at best.
Post Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:00 pm
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Excentris
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I will Invest an Idea into Solar panels and I would also help the world with things if i got a little kickback for it... but I will give you the Idea anyways

The Light Travels down and hits this Trangles and bounces to the side then hits and upside down trangle and bounces in furthur and then bounces to the side and then down again hittings trangle and then upside down trangle absorbing all of the light...
Full Light Absorption
Each Trangle is a Solar Panel
We must Ascend to Escape the Descension that Ascends on our Heels and I battle Descension with this Idea

https://youtu.be/O9u87Kru9oU?list=PLZ7jA1UnWEjToYtyMSdQxBA6dcQiJrPB_

what is the difference between me and you to Albert Enestine! nothing.. only yourself! look at you! rise above yourself!
(energy equals everything squared!
sovereign light! fallow the path of light or descend!
Post Fri May 29, 2015 9:28 pm
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oldguy
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quote:
hittings trangle and then upside down trangle absorbing all of the light...
Full Light Absorption


So your IDEA is to absorb all light, leaving the world in total darkness. And then try to provide light with the small amount of electricity that it generates?
Post Fri May 29, 2015 11:44 pm
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Excentris
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Whhhaaat How could it absorb alll light?
Its like a small Square over a field and it just bounces light on these solar panel triangles that keeps the light bouncing in then down then sideways then down then sideways each time hitting a solar panel... every time it bounces away it gets a bit more dim because the solar triangle takes some energy from the light and then the light that does not get absorbed bounces to another triangle and gets absorbed more..

Solar panels problem today is it only absorbs 10% of the light that hits the solar panel
My idea lets the light enter and bounce inside collecting 100%
it hits this /\ on the sides and moves this way <------/\-------> Now it will hit these --->\/<---- and bounces downwords to these /\ hitting it from the top and foes the same as the first... <-----/\----->
I will Draw a Picture if need be.... so you can understand better if this is not easy to understand...

what is the difference between me and you to Albert Enestine! nothing.. only yourself! look at you! rise above yourself!
(energy equals everything squared!
sovereign light! fallow the path of light or descend!
Post Sat May 30, 2015 3:31 am
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Excentris
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https://youtu.be/wc62kCsDT9M?list=LLdK8uH0ZFOdMcQsUGtbO71A <---(Click Link to Listen to this Song)

NOW with Regular Solar Panel You only get 10% light absorbed and the other 90% Bounces away back up to ether bounce back from the green house gas in our atmosphere or to go out into space..

I Ezpk the Energy Crises!!

what is the difference between me and you to Albert Enestine! nothing.. only yourself! look at you! rise above yourself!
(energy equals everything squared!
sovereign light! fallow the path of light or descend!
Post Sun May 31, 2015 11:33 pm
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27Rocks
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Re: On Solar Panel investing  Reply with quote  

Hey Excentris that is a really very eye catchy representation.
Post Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:10 pm
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